AgriCulture Live Podcast · Agricultural Recruitment Specialists

Rebekah Shields 00:02

Hello and welcome to AgriCulture Live. My name is Rebekah Shields. I'm one of the Directors at Agricultural Recruitment Specialists. Now don't go anywhere. You don't want to miss this. It's a great episode. It's all about Red Tractor and Food Assurance in the UK. If you've got any comments or questions, please post them in the chat and we'll come to them when we can. So straight over to the guys - Steve and Sam, would you like to introduce yourself where you work, and so on? yes, so I'm steven shields.

Stephen Shields 00:35

Yes, so I'm Stephen Shields. I'm the Technical and Sustainability Director of Huntapac Produce. So, we're a fresh produce supply company, a family-owned business, fourth generation, supplying the main retailers. And as part of my role as the Technical Director, I also sit on a number of boards, one of them being the Red Tractor board, along with Sam, and I also sit on the NFU board as the Vice Chair for the horticultural board.

Sam Trevey 01:01

Thanks, Stephen. Hiya. I'm Sam Trevey I'm the Fresh Produce Technical Manager at Red Tractor, so I have responsibility for all kinds of fruit and veg in the sector and I've been with Red Tractor about one and a half years and previously have worked at a food manufacturer, you know, doing farm and supplier audits to various kind of retailer standards.

Rebekah Shields 01:29

OK, so how did you guys get into the food industry and why?

Stephen Shields 01:35

Well, I started in the food industry, I was calculating this before, about 36 years ago now. So, I started in the meat sector working protein for a number of years and then I moved across to fresh produce about 18 years ago. I moved over - when I moved over to Huntapac and I've been there ever since really. So, yeah, I think food's always been what I've done, so I've always like, worked in it really.

Rebekah Shields 02:04

And you Sam?

Sam Trevey 02:07

So yeah, so not quite as long as Stephen, but I've kind of first started working in the food industry probably about 20 years ago, just over 20 years ago. So I live in South Lincolnshire - so it's obviously a big kind of agricultural horticultural area. So yeah, it just started off as a weekend job in a local kind of food manufacturer and yeah, I sort of worked my way up in the through that company, doing a few kinds of various operational roles and then eventually getting into technical and fresh produce, which you know I really enjoyed. I've been doing that for the past kind of 10-15 years of my career.

Rebekah Shields 02:48

Brilliant and is the food industry a good industry to be in, and why?

Stephen Shields 02:59

I think every day is different in the food industry, so you have, like, different challenges every day. You know whether that's ethical challenges, audit challenges, environmental or customer challenges. So, every day is different and that's one thing that that I've liked about the food industry and that's why I've stayed at it for so long. Really, I think it's that it's that variability every day is totally different.

Sam Trevey 03:23

Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree, Steve, and I think also, I think what's perhaps not maybe so well appreciated is that within the food and farming industry there are so many different roles available. You know there's um. You know I personally work in technical, so ensuring that food's kind of, you know, safe, really at the heart of it. But also you know that there are, you know you could be into marketing, commercial. You know digital and data roles are becoming more important in the industry. You know it's a safe industry to work in because everybody's going to need food, so, you know you're never going to, you're never going to lose that need there.

Rebekah Shields 04:04

Well, you definitely weren't affected by COVID, were you? Everyone was still eating.

Sam Trevey 04:11

Exactly.

Rebekah Shields 04:13

So, I know, Steve, obviously you sit on the board at Red Tractor and Sam, you actually work for them. How did you get into that?

Sam Trevey 04:23

So, in my previous role, I was more um, so I was carrying out supplier audits, so to various different standards um across the UK and across the world, to you know, to some extent as well. So, I did that role for about 10 years, I think. So I've got, you know, a good background in food safety standards. And then, yeah, I moved into Red Tractor about a year and a half ago, so, you know, stepping back from doing the audits myself and more working on developing those standards.

Rebekah Shields 04:59

Okay, so there might be people watching that don't even know what Red Tractor is. Could you tell them?

Sam Trevey 05:05

For those that don't know, yeah sure, so in simple terms, you know Red Tractor are you know the company, the body that own and develop the standards for. You know each of the farm sectors we operate in. That's combinable crops and sugar beet, fresh produce beef, lamb, dairy pigs and poultry. And we also operate some kind of post farm gate standards as well. You know more in the livestock sectors. So Red Tractor farmer members are audited against those standards by an independent third party certification body and then, following a successful audit, growers or farmers will receive a certificate to mark their product, Red Tractor for sure.

05:58

So this means that the Red Tractor logo can then be placed on the end product, you know, on the supermarket shelf, and then that reassures shoppers that the food and drink that they're buying have been produced to our high standards. And you know which ensures that. You know that food or drink is safe, it's traceable, and so the team at Red Tractor. So we're a fairly small team of about 30-35 people, , and so where I fit in in, in the technical department, we have a technical manager for each of those farm sectors and we help to develop those standards by working with our sector board, which is made up of various stakeholders from across the supply chain, including Stephen, and that includes, you know, includes growers, processors, experts from across the industry and retailers, and that ensures that growers' interests are represented when we develop the standards and every part of the supply chain has a level of input where necessary.

Rebekah Shields 06:57

And how many standards are there Sam? What are the main standards?

Sam Trevey 07:08

I've not counted them, but you know so we have a few different, several different sections within the standards and it covers some core kind of principles such as, like I said, about traceability within fresh, fresh produce. It's really, you know, that food safety element is so important because a lot of what we produce in fresh produce, can you know, can be eaten raw, so we have to take that into account. So we have standards in place around things like irrigation, water use, composting, manure applications and, you know, worker hygiene and things like that, to use compost and manure applications and worker hygiene and things like that, to ensure that we really control and reduce the risk of contamination of the product throughout production.

Rebekah Shields 07:56

Okay, and how did this scheme come about?

Sam Trevey 08:01

So, I think the Red Tractor scheme was first developed over two decades ago. It was originally known as British Farm Standards and was really set up by the UK kind of food and farming industry to reassure shoppers of the safety of British produce that was kind of on the back of a series of food safety scares in the 1990s that was, you know, involving E coli, salmonella and BSE was really the big one. And you know, these issues like this thankfully they're nowadays, they're quite rare and trust in British food has, you know, has come a long way since then. I mean, I'm kind of just about old enough to remember the BSE crisis and you know, back then people would avoid British beef and that kind of seems unthinkable today, I think. You know, I'm sure that Red Tractor's had a part to play in, you know, in rebuilding that trust.

Rebekah Shields 08:57

So, who are the main users of Red Tractor then?

Sam Trevey 09:01

So, we have about altogether about 50,000 British farms who are, you know, who are farmer members of Red Tractor. We have about 600 food businesses across the UK which make a Red Tractor claim on their products. So that can be either, you know, using the logo on the pack or kind of using it as part of their, you know, buying specifications. Um, and all together it covers around 16 billion pounds worth of food and drink that, you know, per year is Red Tractor assured. So it's a requirement of, you know, most of the big UK retailers.

Rebekah Shields 09:39

And who funds it? or is there a charge? How does it work?

Sam Trevey 09:43

So it's funded in part by farmer members, , and also in part by the, by those kind of licensed food businesses that are using the logo. So it's kind of 50/50. So we operate on a not-for-profit basis, so all of our income is then reinvested back into our operations and marketing. So marketing is a big part of what we do as well. You might see in the television adverts. So yes, so there's that kind of consumer awareness marketing aspect as well.

Rebekah Shields 10:14

Is this where the “Buy British” thing came from?

Sam Trevey 10:19

I think there's. You know, I think that there's various initiatives in place. I think NFU have similar initiatives and AHDB do a similar thing on the meat and livestock sectors.

Rebekah Shields 10:33

Okie doke. So how? You're a farmer, you know you've got produce. How do you become Red Tractor Assured? What do you need to do?

Sam Trevey 10:45

So, it's a fairly simple process really. So, the scheme's kind of open to any UK farmer. Anybody can apply to become a Red Tractor member. So, once they've applied and had a successful audit and they've resolved any issues that have been found, they'll then receive a certificate from their certification body and will then become Red Tractor assured. So, they'll be able to make this claim on their products. And then, after this initial assessment, they'll then have annual re-audits. It takes place to kind of maintain that certification. And yet any issues that are found within that cycle there's a process for resolving them.

Rebekah Shields 11:27

And do you think enough of the general public and food consumers know about Red Tractor?

Sam Trevey 11:35

Consumers know about Red Tractor, so our research shows about I think about 74% of shoppers you know, recognise the logo and it's, you know, that's significantly higher than any other kind of comparable UK Farm Assurance scheme. Like I said, a big part of what we do is marketing to try and get those key messages across to shoppers, to, you know, to really reinforce what the scheme stands for.

Rebekah Shields 12:00

OK, and so what are the benefits of being Red Tractor Assured?

Stephen Shields 12:07

I think the benefits from a food business organisation is it does offer an element of due diligence for a business, you know and it offers, it provides customers with a bit of um, what's the word? A bit of confidence in what they're purchasing is what it requires them, and I suppose if you want to export the products as well, you use that, that people, because the exporters have that confidence as well. So it does provide that.

Rebekah Shields 12:35

And are there any drawbacks?

Stephen Shields 12:42

I think. I think one thing that's been talked about a lot recently has been about audit burden, and about having too many audits. And as a sector, from a horticultural sector, you know there are, you know we, as a business our size, we might get up to 20 audits a year across retail, accreditation bodies and red tractor, and I think you know being on the Red Tractor board, one thing we are looking to do is to look at how we align the assurance scheme of Red Tractor and how we try to make that a more efficient process as well. So that is going on in the background as well.

Rebekah Shields 13:19

Okay, when do you think that will be done?

Stephen Shields 13:23

Well, I think it's in stages so far, isn't it, Sam? But I think you know. I think at present it's gathering what the sort of feels are about Red Tractor and what changes could be made, but there's a whole protest to go governance, all the rest, before we get to any further stages on that.

Rebekah Shields 13:42

So, Stephen, talk to us. Why are food standards so important in the UK?

Stephen Shields 13:47

I think we've got like world-class standards in the UK really for food production. I think that does offer a lot of confidence, as I said before, for buyers. I think it offers a lot of due diligence as well. You know, if there are issues, you've got that due diligence to fall back on. Well, I think, overall, it's the confidence piece about having that confidence for consumers to buy into it. Whether that's meat, whether that's poultry, whether it's fresh produce, it does give that level of confidence really.

Rebekah Shields 14:16

And does the Red Tractor logo mean free range?

Sam Trevey 14:21

So, I mean so all of our core Red Tractor standards should be, you know, should be accessible to all UK farms yeah, so our standards in the poultry sectors are, you know, they're world leading in terms of, things like hygiene and animal welfare.

14:37

So, although we don't require all of our poultry members to be operating at free range standards, we do offer a free range, you know, like an add on assessment, you know, to those farms who are free range, to allow them to kind of demonstrate those credentials to customers and then they are able to use, a separate Red Tractor free range logo. We also, we also offer in the poultry sector. We also offer an enhanced welfare add-on which is, you know, similar to the free range one. It allows them to use a separate logo and that's for farms that are, you know, providing even more space for birds in rich living conditions, and using, like, slower growing breeds which were in line with requirements of the better chicken commitment.

Rebekah Shields 15:47

Okay, and so what can you tell us about the UK food industry and where it's at currently?

Stephen Shields 15:33

I think for me. Well, look at the veg sector that I work in. There's some death stats that come out recently that show the veg sector is actually going backwards from a home procurement or home grown sort of status. It's going backwards Since about 2018, the numbers are going backwards. So from a level of food security, we're probably about 52% or that sort of level, and the rest have to come from imports. I think what the industry has seen over the years has been consolidation within the sector as well, which is a shame for some of the smaller growers, and I think really as a sector, what we need to get better at doing is really getting that breadth of growers out there. Really, rather than trying to consolidate. I think it needs to have more growers in it. We need to bring new entrants into the sector as well.

Rebekah Shields 16:24

How do you think we could bring more people into the growing sector?

Stephen Shields 16:30

I think it's a challenge. You know, if we're not dragging this down with the idea of putting some crops in the ground and growing them yourself, not knowing the outcome you're going to get, not knowing the weather they're going to be under and all the rest the public invest into it, it's a very difficult business to get into, really is horticulture. I think I think, for new entrants coming into it I think we talked to earlier. I think there are a range of jobs people can get into and I think as we progress and as we become more autonomous within this you know, using autonomous vehicles and this field become a higher skill set, I think we'll see more people wanting to come into the sector.

Rebekah Shields 17:12

What do you think, Sam?

Sam Trevey 17:15

Yeah, absolutely, I agree with Stephen. It's, you know, I think, one of the, maybe one of the issues. You know, I think the average age of a UK farmer is close to 60. So you know, we have an ageing cohort but not enough kind of new young people coming into the industry. I don't know.

17:36

I wonder if there's perhaps a lack of appreciation as to how varied those roles can be. You know you can work in agriculture without being, you know, you don't necessarily have to be a boots on the ground. You know, a tractor driver or that kind of, or anything more physical than that. There's roles within agriculture, you know, in the background, in things like digital and data and kind of exciting new technologies like that which might be more attractive to younger people perhaps. But yeah, I think also, I think labour is a, you know, a big issue and you know labour availability is, you know, I think perhaps can become more of an issue as we go forward. You know Stephen mentioned automation, which you know could be a, could be part of the solution. But I think we're, you know we're not there yet and we're always going to need staff.

Rebekah Shields 18:29

Absolutely, and it's. We don't want our figures for food security to go down, we want them to be going up, don't we really? Absolutely yeah, okay, and so in terms of those considering a career in food, are there generally many opportunities available?

Stephen Shields 18:52

Yeah, I think there are. I think, um know, if you look at our business, we have a farming operation, a packing operation and a distribution side. So you know, and that's just one business and you know so, within that there's a range of jobs and job functions that need to be fulfilled, you know. So, I think there is, that I think within the horticultural sector there's a lot of business reinvesting people as well and really trying to bring people on and develop them within the sector. So, I do think you know, normally, if you enter the horticultural sector into fresh produce, you do seem to stay in it for a period of time and it's the same faces within the sector moving around. So, I think it is one of those that when you do end up in it, you do stay in it for a period of time and it's the same faces within the sector moving around. So, I think it is one of those that when you do end up in it, you do have to stay in it for a very long time, absolutely.

Rebekah Shields 19:43

So why should people consider food as a career path? You know there's going to be students watching, deciding. You know which way they're going to go. What can you say to them?

Stephen Shields 19:57

I think there's a wealth of different sorry, I think there's a lot of different opportunities for people to join into, whether that's NPD, whether it's spraying, whether it's agronomy, or account management, or technical or quality. You know there's a whole host of jobs available for people, I think you know, working in fresh produce. There's all sorts of overseas travel is available as well, if you know, if you start getting involved with companies that import and export. So, it really does open up to every sort of job you could think of in fresh produce.

Sam Trevey 20:34

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I agree with everything Stephen said. I mean from a personal point of view.

20:40

Like I said, I started my first role in in the food industry when I was, when I was 16, you know, still at school, working at a weekend job, putting parts of coleslaw in boxes was my first role, so, you know, not especially glamorous, but within that business I was, you know, I kind of worked my way through, doing various different roles along and you know I had all the relevant kind of on-the-job training and qualifications etc. And you know, when I got into a technical role, you know, like Stephen said, I had the opportunity to travel the world and, you know, see places I wouldn't have otherwise been able to see, you know, and I developed the relevant skills to be here where I am today working at Red Tractor.

Rebekah Shields 21:29

From what I can see from a recruitment point of view is that there's lots of opportunities for career progression once you get your foot in the door, isn't there?

Sam Trevey 21:35

Yeah, absolutely.

Rebekah Shields 21:37

So I'm going to ask you both. Over to you, Sam. Firstly, what do you think are going to be the next big issues in the industry going forward? Because I ask everyone this.

Sam Trevey 21:46

I think, I wasn't sure whether to say this or not, because I'm sure everybody says the same thing, but you know, I think climate change is it is, you know, obviously going to have such a huge and I think it's to some extent already having such a huge impact on the sector. I think you know that the past, the winter just gone, I think, was one of the one of the one of the wettest we've seen for a very long time and that had a big impact on crops and I think we're probably still seeing some of the knock-on effects of that. So I think, as we see more and more, you know, extreme kind of weather events whether it's, you know, flooding, droughts, extreme temperatures that's going to have, I think, not only an issue on actual crop production but from my point of view, from a food safety point of view, there's potential impacts there. So you might have, where you have flooding, you have the opportunity to spread pathogens and sewage water, things like that, across fields. So that presents a risk. And also, I guess, as ambient environmental temperatures, soil temperatures, increase, you know, that might create a more favourable environment for certain bacterial pathogens as well. So there's all these other things that might have an impact as well.

23:03

As you know the climate, potentially, it could be more favourable to certain pests and diseases of crops as well. So, I think there's lots of different ways it could affect food production. I think that you know. I think it's not entirely all bad news, because I know that there's a flourishing wine industry in the UK which is, you know, has been made possible by climate change to some extent. So, I guess the role of the industry is to, you know, to adapt possible by climate change to some extent. So, I guess the role of the industry is to you know, to adapt and change to those challenges.

Rebekah Shields 23:34

And what do you think, Stephen, are going to be the big issues?

Stephen Shields 23:39

I think I think Sam’s right on the climate change one, I think. Weather. Over the last couple of years has been well, it's been extremes really, from extreme drought a few years ago to extreme weather, as I saw last year. So obviously that has impacts on crops and the growing of crops and the yields you get from those crops as well. So, I think weather has been a key change over. That said, last three to four years in our business particularly, and I think linked to that, there's been a lot of talk about risk and resilience within the supply chain and a lot of people are putting more emphasis into looking at how we can mitigate risks of extremes of weather, whether that's inputs or whatever it might be, or look at different growing areas or different varieties.

24:25

I think linked to that has also been costs.

24:27

You know costs within the sector have been going up since COVID really, and then because of the Ukraine war, which forced fertilizer prices up. So, I think costs are one thing that are a significant issue for the sector. I think if you look to the profitability of most large produce businesses, there's probably not a lot of profit being made from them really, and isn't this piece of for people to understand why the cost of producing food which sometimes I don't think consumers really understand the cost of what it is to produce, you know, fresh produce. You know if you look at all the different inputs and all the different costs associated to it, there's a whole host of costs and yet, you know, you see carrots on a 50 kilo. Whatever it might be, it doesn't really cover that sort of cost really. So, I think costs are a key part. I think we need to start looking at how we can make consumers understand what goes into producing our products and in our sector

Rebekah Shields 25:22

Absolutely - what in terms of what could we do to help farmers get the margins up do you think?

Stephen Shields 25:34

I think a lot of it is consumer understanding really. You know, I mean, if you looked on us, if you look to what, what the inputs are, so you've got seed, you've got seeds, you've got land rent, you've got tractors, you've got to plough, you've got to bed for them, you've got. You know, you've got all your farming costs. Then you've got all your processing kit and your processing costs, of which these lines are all bespoke to deal with fresh produce coming through them. Then you've got a labour cost which is ever increasing and you know, under this, you labour government, I think that's going to go up again, which isn't a bad thing, but it's going to go up again. And then, from a transport point of view - diesel is going up all the time. So, all these costs all build into the end product cost really, and I think it's how we get consumers to understand that, really understand the value of fresh food.

Rebekah Shields 26:21

I don't think consumers understand that food here is cheap, isn't it?

Stephen Shields 26:25

Indeed. Yeah, I think if you looked on the continent, compared to the UK prices, fresh produce is relatively cheap really.

Rebekah Shields 26:32

Yeah, but it's how you go about it, isn't it? Absolutely Well. I really enjoyed that discussion. Both Sam and Stephen, you've given us some great insights into the food industry, the importance of food assurance and all about Red Tractor, so it was so good to have both of your inputs today. Thank you everyone for watching and listening. Keep following us. We have some great new discussions coming up, including speaking with Dan Smith, who's a Nuffield scholar, and we'll be talking about how to get the next generation involved in agriculture and farming. But if you've got an interesting topic in agriculture that you would like to talk about, please get in contact with me via Agricultural Recruitment Specialists, which is www.agriRS.com. And if you'd like to hear more on new issues and topics within the agricultural and farming industry, you can follow us on various channels, including Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts - just look up AgriCulture Live. So that's all from me. Thank you for joining us and, Sam and Stephen, would you like to say goodbye?

Sam Trevey / Stephen Shields 27:46

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Rebekah Shields 27:48

Thank you.