AgriCulture Live Podcast Transcript - Episode 18

Rebekah Shields 00:01

Hello and welcome to AgriCulture Live. My name's Rebekah Shields. I'm one of the Directors at Agricultural Recruitment Specialists. Now, don't go anywhere. You don't want to miss it. It's a great episode. We're diving deep into the industry in terms of the theme of increasing diversity within agriculture, which is obviously an essential topic for the future of our industry. If you've got any questions or comments, please post them in the chat and we'll come to them when we can. So over to Kaye. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Kaye Hope 00:35

Hey, Good Morning Rebekah. Thanks so much. Yes, so I'm Kaye Hope. I'm the COO and co-founder here at Farmable. If you haven't heard of Farmable, farmable is a farm management app built for growers globally and certainly used by quite a few over in the UK. So we can talk a little more about that later. Farmable started six years ago, so I was part of the founding team there. Yeah, before Farmable, farmable is my second tech startup, so I had a tech startup before that in the 3D software space and before that I had an eight-year corporate career in the oil and gas space. I'm Canadian, proudly Canadian, and that kind of I think will weave into our conversation today because it's a really I guess dear to my heart how diverse Canada is, and now that I live abroad, I'm over in Norway, I really reflect fondly on how diverse Canada is and that's kind of a big part of my roots.

Rebekah Shields 01:37

Okay, yeah, excellent. So how did you get into the agtech industry and why?

Kaye Hope 01:45

Yeah, that's a great question. I didn't really, when I reflect on that, I mean I didn't plan on it, but now that I'm here I don't want to go anywhere else and it feels like a really natural place for me to be. So I grew up in a city called Waterloo, which in itself is a tech hub. It's a place of innovation and entrepreneurship. So the tech part feels really natural to me. And Waterloo is a medium-sized city and it's surrounded by farmland and small to medium-sized family farms.

02:18

And my parents both grew up on a family farm. So I grew up in the city of innovation, but of innovation. But you know I was the product of two people who grew up on family farms. A lot of my extended family still farm, you know holidays were often, you know, celebrated on a farm somewhere. So I have a deep respect for what farming means, you know, for our society and how hardworking farmers are. So, sitting at this intersection, it feels a lot like my family meeting my passion for tech. It feels like a natural place for me to be in. I'm really proud to be here.

Rebekah Shields 02:57

Sounds like a perfect mix. So, you currently work for Farmable. Tell us about Farmable. What does Farmable do?

Kaye Hope 03:06

Yeah, so Farmable is a user-friendly farm management app. We're making it easy for growers, like many in the UK, to stay compliant with certifications like Global Gap, Red Tractor. We basically make the work process around keeping a spray log or a product inventory log extremely simple, so we allow farms to basically automate a lot of their administrative work and save them a lot of time. It's a low cost product, and so we actually have a lot of time. It's a low-cost product and so we actually have a generous premium offering.

03:47

You can basically download the app from your favourite app store and get started within a few minutes, and our premium features are only £100 per farm per year. So the whole idea is to make a really user-friendly starting point that is accessible, so that if you're essentially working with paper and pen today for a lot of your documentation, I guess the challenge that I would give to you is replacing a way of working you know that can be prone to errors and you know, and difficult to share. So, yeah, I would say, if you're working on a farm and you're still using a lot of pen and paper and spreadsheets as a part of those processes, it's time, you know, to try. There's lots of great farm management tools out there, and Farmable is one of them, so give it a shot.

Rebekah Shields 04:48

So what makes Farmable stand out from its competitors?

Kaye Hope 04:52

Yeah, I think you know when you talk about competitors. When we speak about competitors, we often think you know it's still pen and paper and spreadsheets. That's, I would say, the biggest you know thing that we're up against at our business. If I look into the other agtech players out there and other farm management systems, I think where we're trying to differentiate ourselves is really with user friendliness. That's what our managers say about Farmable. You can basically download the app and be out spraying, automatically tracking your work, within a few minutes. So it's that real simplicity and user friendliness that makes people stick. I think with Farmable, we automatically GPS, track your work and we save you time by automating the tank mix that you're going to use out in the field.

Rebekah Shields 05:44

So it's a lot about you know, reducing errors and giving people a simple tool that they can use instead of pen and paper, excellent. So today, let's dive right in. We're going to be talking about diversity in agriculture. So workforce diversity, if we, you know, sum it up, is the collective mixture of employees' differences and similarities, including behaviours, values, beliefs, backgrounds, and experiences. The statistics speak for themselves; according to 2021 Office of National Statistics (ONS) numbers, 97.2% of people employed in agriculture, forestry and fishing are white, making farming the least diverse job sector in the UK. Also, Office for National Statistics for 2023 shows that of the 104,700 registered farmers, 22% are female. And then alarming data from the office of national statistics again, that 50 gay farmers a year end their lives, with the fear of coming out to loved ones being the main reason, which is tragic. So diversity as a whole, you know, whether you look at it in terms of colour, you know sexual orientation, you know gender, you know everything. Um, it's, it's, it's a big thing, isn't it? So what is your experience in terms of this and what have you found out about this subject?

Kaye Hope 07:27

Yeah, thanks, I mean. So, sitting here as part of a global agtech team, we have a product that we're targeting in many different markets. So you know, my team and I were speaking primarily to farm managers. So, just to put into context our experience, so we speak with farm managers globally. To be more specific, we primarily work with farms in the UK, in specific parts of Europe like Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Austria, Netherlands, and then, going broader, we speak quite often with growers in South Africa, Australia and North America, Canada, the US. So I guess we have a unique vantage point in that we're speaking to farm managers in quite a few different countries. And you know and the statistics that you share are not surprising. Certainly a lot of our customers and a lot of the farm owners that we speak to are male.

08:35

I would say one observation that we've had from the early days and that's holding true is that the number of women that are in more advisory roles, I would say, is something that we've really observed more than farm managers, that we do meet female farm managers out there, and I was digging in and I can share a couple of statistics as well on that. But I think one interesting observation is that there's something about the advisory track that seems to appeal more, I think, to women in particular. So that's an interesting trend. Yeah, and you mentioned around 20% of British farms are owned by women. That still feels low, I think, when you look at numbers from Europe and even the US. So I was doing a little bit of digging myself and the US census reports 36% of the producers are women and EU farm managers.

09:41

If we look at all of Europe, EU farm managers, you know, if we look at all of Europe, it's more around 32%, so we're more getting into the 30. So the UK is a bit behind there. But, you know, one of the interesting articles I found, you know, when learning all about diversity in particular with the UK, highlighted a woman named Holly Collins who in the 1970s, you know, had applied to go to the Royal Agricultural College, you know, and, and even in the 1970s, which isn't that long ago, you know, she wasn't admitted. So when you think about it, I mean if, if 50 years ago you couldn't even get in agricultural school, and now 20 percent, you know, are farms approximately, and I'm sure growing, you know, are owned by women or led by women, I mean that is something, that's something to celebrate because these things take a generation or two.

Rebekah Shields 10:38

This takes time, right this takes time right. I was just going to say so. Why do you think there is a lack of diversity in agriculture?

Kaye Hope 10:54

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that there's an industry with a harder starting point, and even when you think about it, I mean there's. There's two main things that come to my mind here on how this is such a challenge for farming, and you know, I think the first is I mean, it's more about history really is that, you know, when it comes to land, leadership on farm right is so typically connected to who owns that farm right, and land ownership is what it is. We're not going to change that. The wealth is, you know, distributed the way it is. So that's just the reality. But I think it also comes back to a really big part here is that, I mean, farming is a rural activity, right, and rural communities, you know, just looking at statistics, no matter what country we talk about Canada, UK, I mean they are less diverse.

11:55

It is harder to attract, you know, visual minorities into rural communities as opposed to cities. Um, uh know, as a proud Canadian, one thing, one statistic that you know often gets quoted is Toronto, the biggest city, you know, in Canada. When people say, you know, what does it mean to be Canadian? I mean, if you're in Toronto, the number of visual minorities is 56%. You know the population. So more people in Toronto, you know, don't look like me, you know, than do look like me, right? So, but that's the city, and then even in a country like Canada is, you know, pretty well known for managing its diversity as soon as you go into, you know the rural communities where my parents grew up, for example. I mean, we're talking about maybe somewhere between 5% and 15% visual minorities. So I think there's also something around expectations here on that. If we're expecting farming to have the same level of diversity as cities, like a business that's, you know, in an urban area um, that's probably unfair, right? They're just the same pool of talent to pull for in rural communities.

Rebekah Shields 13:13

I was going to say like because, with geography, rural parts of the country are less diverse. Yeah, so that that could be one of the reasons. I mean, in the UK itself, some of the statistics say that, you know, the average age of a farmer is like in their 50s. So I think it doesn't help that we're not bringing enough of the young through yeah, you know into the industry to show what we're about, you know, in terms of diversity. Now, would you agree with that?

Kaye Hope 13:49

Fully agree, and I think maybe that's something that will probably be a bit of a reoccurring theme here this morning. But it's you know how. You know the root cause. There is like how are we going to make agriculture? You know a really exciting industry to be a part of. You know for everybody, right. The young, the visual minorities, everybody right, we need to create a magnet. You know that pulls people in.

Rebekah Shields 14:14

So, in terms of females that are considering agriculture as a career, do you think working hours are to blame? Is it that there isn't, you know, much of an opportunity for flexible working? Or the four-day week, say you know, especially for working mums? Could that be a big reason?

Kaye Hope 14:36

You know, off the top of my head I would say probably not. I mean I think with any career, you know, there are more and more, there are opportunities for flexibility.

Rebekah Shields 14:49

And.

Kaye Hope 14:50

I mean, you know men are parents too, right? So I think you know men also need flexibility on the family side. So I think having flexible work, working conditions is something we're all looking for right, and we need to see that more and more in any industry, including agriculture because I don't see that many jobs that offer the flexible working within our industry. Yeah what would say more about what you mean by flexible working, so from home working different hours like part-time roles?

Rebekah Shields 15:26

Yeah, or, like you know, just using the four-day week, obviously on a farm, it's you can't do that, can you? You know it's an every day job. So maybe that's not attracting the people, and the diversity as well. I mean, what about the fact that you know? Just digging deep into this, could it be that there aren't enough diverse role models in the industry?

Kaye Hope 15:56

Yeah, so that's something that I would definitely champion. You know, I think anytime there's been an industry that, let's say, lacks diversity or is predominantly male-dominated, we've started to see shifts, if you think historically, think about other classical, male-dominated industries or industries that lack diversity.

16:16

Think about sporting, think about medicine, think about even something really technical like aerospace, even something really technical like aerospace, right, you, as soon as we start to see like a role model and someone we can really champion and put them on a stage, then all of a sudden, you know that's that magnet, right, it's like, oh, I want to be like her, right, um, so I definitely think there's an opportunity, uh, to celebrate more, um, the real leaders you know of it.

Rebekah Shields 16:44

I was reading as well that often. Often, many farms are family-based, which can limit diversity.

Kaye Hope 16:57

I mean this is, I think, coming back to I think farming has just such a difficult starting point, when it comes to diversity. Because, yeah, I mean it goes who owns the farm and then typically the leadership for that farm is so, as you rightly say, so closely tied to who owns it, so it's family, and that gets passed down generation after generation. So it's almost like by definition, you definition we're not choosing people that are different from our next of kin to run the farm, and we know that. And there's also something beautiful that's like the tradition of farming and having that passed down generation after generation. I mean there's something wonderful about that as well, but it doesn't do much for diversity, does it?

Rebekah Shields17:46

Yeah, I mean, why do you think females take more of the advisory roles?

Kaye Hope 17:54

So many days a week or have certain hours. As long as you have enough advisory teammates that can balance that out, there's probably a workable solution there. Yeah, and maybe it could be about role models as well. I think another piece of this that we haven't touched on yet probably comes down to the, the universities, um, you know, and making sure that they attract um talent into you know, whether it's agribusiness or you know agri-sciences, um, you know, they also have a role to play here and making this an attractive industry definitely.

Rebekah Shields 18:51

And Nigel Davis has said “Female students now outnumber men almost two to one on agriculture and related courses, according to the higher education statistics agency”, so there are more female agricultural experts being produced, so hope isn't lost - let's hope it. All you know filters through. Okay, yeah, so why is it important that companies make diversity and inclusion a priority within their businesses?

Kaye Hope 19:27

Yeah, I mean this comes back. This comes back. This is business basics, isn't it? I mean, what's the number one priority of a business? I mean it's to basically generate return on the investment of the shareholders, right, and we know there's so many studies now that point to diversity in a team leading to the increased performance of that team. So, for me, I mean, my standpoint on this is much more. It's much less about why and more about how.

19:56

I think there's a lot of evidence that points to diversity and, you know, being essential for business performance. I'll give you maybe one often quoted fact from the startup world BCG did a study not too long ago and they looked at, you know, women-led startups, across 350 different startups and the female-led teams. They delivered two times the revenue per dollar of capital invested, you know, over male-led teams. So it's not a secret, you know, we know. You know, having women in the workforce, you know, delivers business results. So I think the yeah, there's no doubt. You know that this is the right thing to do for business. I think the tricky part is just how do you implement it, and particularly in agriculture, it's not that easy.

Rebekah Shields 20:53

Something I've said before is that agriculture needs to be taught in schools. So, it's in rural areas. It's in urban areas, you know, because if it's part of the curriculum, it will reach a wider audience. You know, to other future career takers as well.

Kaye Hope 21:11

That's a fantastic point. I've actually never, you know, I never thought about it. I mean, we think about it, you know it's, you know, a clear option, you know, for university students to choose from. But even before that right that it needs to be something that is more of a focus to generate interest at an early stage. Um, so, 100% agree.

Rebekah Shields 21:33

Fantastic, okay. So what I wanted to ask you is - does it also start with recruitment within organisations? What can they do?

Kaye Hope 21:42

Yeah, I mean recruitment's, obviously, I mean coming back to attracting talent. Yeah, you know, this is core, I think, to the future of agriculture. Um, that said, I don't think I think to the future of agriculture, even before recruitment as a priority, I think we have to make sure that leadership of any business farm, agribusiness, support sector the leadership of that business has to say diversity, you know, is a priority and they have to talk about it, they have to champion it, and you know. And then, because and I say that because while recruitment is extremely important, but recruiting and you can probably tell us, you know some real world examples here but, you know, recruiting for diversity, it can take maybe a little more time or a little more effort.

Rebekah Shields 22:37

And you know so it requires, like, head hunting. Yeah, do an executive search because, it's, you know the passive talent pool that's out there, and actually going and finding these people, yeah, that there are less of yeah so it's something.

Kaye Hope 22:49

You actually have to be in the right mindset, you know, and decide, yes, I'm going to spend more effort, you know, and energy to actually make sure that my team is diverse and that's an investment right. So that has to be supported. You know all the way through. We're very lucky at Farmable that you know. Our board and our leadership team, myself included, have been really passionate about diversity from day one.

Rebekah Shields 23:14

Brilliant. So how can a business who is watching today, they're listening, they're thinking yeah, these guys are right, I need a more diverse team. What can they do, just to start today with making changes to its diversity and inclusion practices?

Kaye Hope 23:33

Yeah, I actually really liked. You know you had an article not too long ago about diversity as a strategic imperative. Uh, and I I really liked it because you got into the practical bits, um, right away, because I think it is. It's I mean, um, are there. I think the biggest thing you know that you can do is really talk about it. You know what we said celebrate diversity. You know, make that a core value right. Aside from that, you know there's not one big thing, it's more small things, making sure you know that there's. You know equipment that fits, that schedules reflect the reality of everybody's. You know requirements, men and women, you know that there are. You know you talked about things like facilities, so even something as simple as restrooms. You know making sure that you know everybody feels welcome and included. Yeah, I think it comes down to the small things.

Rebekah Shields 24:28

The little steps can make big changes, can't they? So a question that I always ask all of my guests is what do you think aside from this? Is going to be the biggest issue for agriculture going forward?

Kaye Hope 24:46

Oh god, I mean there's so many things that we could talk about there, right, I mean, agriculture is really hard and there are some, you know, very big challenges that agriculture faces. So I mean everything from you know market conditions, you know, to you know changing compliance around food safety and climate change, changing compliance around food safety and climate change, and not to mention, I mean technology, adopting technology in the best possible way. These are big challenges for this industry. But I think the bottom line for all of that is that if we're going to successfully navigate these kind of big global challenges in this industry, we need talented people. And so I think it comes back to how do we make this an attractive industry so that we get, you know, new talent in diverse talent in to solve those problems?

Rebekah Shields 25:47

Because it is a great industry to be in, isn't it Kaye?

Kaye Hope 25:53

It's amazing. I'm so glad that I ended up here and I mean it's so impactful and I think that's a message that we need to. You know, maybe we need some, maybe to rebrand or really to market more about just how impactful and important you know this industry is and you know, and I know, a lot of young people out there they really want to be a part of something meaningful, and agriculture is absolutely the place to be. We all need to eat and we all need to find a way, you know, to grow food for the planet, you know, in a sustainable way. So I mean, what could be more impactful than that?

Rebekah Shields 26:32

It's great. It's great, Kaye. So what a great discussion, thank you. I've really, really enjoyed it and you've definitely highlighted some things for us all to consider um going forward. Um, thank you everybody for watching and listening. Thank you again, Kaye, and keep following us. We've got some great new discussions coming up, and if you have got an interesting topic in agricultural farming that you would like to talk about, please get in contact with me via agricultural recruitment specialist, which is www.agrirs.com and if you would like to hear more on new issues and topics within the industry, you can follow us on various channels, including Spotify, YouTube, apple podcasts. Just look up, look up AgriCulture Live. So thank you so much for joining us, Kaye. Would you like to end?

Kaye Hope 27:28

Yeah, just, you know that it was a pleasure to be here and, um, for anybody listening, um, you know if you are looking to have a chat either on you know how to recruit for diversity within you know the agtech space. Um, that's something that I'm passionate about and working towards and, um, have you know some experience in? So, please, you know, reach out and connect with me. And you know, in the same light, if you're working on a farm or connected to a farm that is trying to decide how to move forward with technology, you're looking for a user-friendly solution for farm management. You know you can download the app and connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm really happy to talk.

Rebekah Shields 28:08

Thanks, Kaye, I really appreciate you being here today.

Kaye Hope 28:12

Likewise. Thank you, Rebekah.